If you really want to lead die! If you really want to die serve! If you don’t want to serve you don’t want to die, if you don’t want to die you don’t want to lead, at least not biblically. Dying to ourselves is the epitome of the Christian journey! Jesus gives many references to death, the most outstanding is the paradox of “picking up your cross and die daily”. It is quoted often in scripture but I think the communal aspect is missing in it. Jesus died for a community not individuals. Jesus purchased the Church with His blood, not individuals. A collective unit of predestined, foreknew, elect individuals that would make up the whole. Jesus purchased in bulk. So when we see the picking up our cross, we may need to look at it in a more communal aspect. But this is for a later post.
I want to focus on dying or as Paul says “the giving up of one’s self”. Here in Ephesians is where it is at:
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
We all know this verse and we quote the three before it with great ease. For the most part we can all quote this one. But what is the practical outworking of this? Here comes another confession. When I started to deal heavily in theology man I wanted my wife to join with me. As a matter of fact I couldn’t understand why she was not excited about my new found truth. I couldn’t understand why she didn’t want to read Desiring God, The Holiness of God, and The Five Points of Calvinism, Future Grace, and The Gospel According to Jesus, The Mortification of Sin, The Christian’s Great Interest, and definitely Dr. Grudem’s ST! I was starting the handle the word with a great precision. Got me a couple of good Concordances, Lexicons, Dictionaries, started to read a little work on Greek. And for the most part Charity wasn’t interested.
I started challenging her with the scripture, quizzing her with my knowledge, trying to engage her. Yeah I loved her! I was washing her with the word wasn’t I? I was faithful, I didn’t yell as much (unless we disagreed about a theological position). Sure I loved her. So then I jumped up a few verses and started reading those to her. “Wives submit”. Now I never realized until quite recently that as this letter was being read for the first time, whoever had the responsibility to read it would have looked over to the WIVES not the husbands. This verse doesn’t say “Husbands command your wives to submit to you as on to the Lord”. Never, ever, ever does Paul tell husbands to tell their wives to submit? This is key
You see Paul is speaking to the women about submitting, not husbands about wives submitting. It wasn’t my job to bring this to my wives attention; it is the Holy Spirits’. If I coerce, this isn’t voluntary it is under compulsion. So what I am to do? Paul says it quite clearly “model Christ”! Whatever Christ does for His bride I am to do for mine.
Practically this looks like a servant ministry. My job is to lead my wife by example. Not just any example the example of the Lord Jesus who said “the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many”. Jesus the Christ takes the INITIATIVE in serving. Jesus always gets the party started. Jesus pursues service! This is key so don’t miss me. He pursues the role of servant recklessly. He clothes himself in human flesh, lives a life of submission to His creation (His mother and father), lives to heal and minister to others, washes stinky feet, and then pursues the cross as the writer of Hebrews says “for the joy set before Him, He endured the cross”.
Husbands do you have the mind of Christ? Let me ask, when was the last time you decided to recklessly pursue a role of a servant to your wife? When was the last time you told her to go get her a pedicure while you took care of the kids? When was the last time you argued with her to put the broom and mop down and watch some Lifetime while you scrubbed the stool, swept and mopped the floors, vacuumed the carpet, dust and polish the furniture? When was the last time you told her to go hang with her girls while you grocery shop? Sent her on a trip and you take days off work to keep the kids? Offered her to sit down first while you feed the kids and bring her, her plate and cleaned the kids up and put them in the bath, after washing the dishes?
You see this is the leadership Jesus talks about. Leadership that is an emptying of one’s self for the benefit of the other, with no, and I do mean no, expectation of reciprocity. Jesus pursues us and serves us for our benefit, never for His. Jesus is no less glorious, Jesus is no less God, if He decided to stay in perfect union with the Father and let this world go to hell in a hand basket. He loses not one iota of glory. But He says this “no greater love has then this that a man lay down his life for his friends”. Jesus didn’t have to tell the disciple to submit, they saw Him model perfect submission to the Father and unconditional servant-like love towards them.
If you want to love your wife, pick up the mop and the broom. Take some time to relieve her of some of her duties. Put her feet in your hand as Jesus did His disciples! “Don’t look out for your own interests”. Pursue servant-hood recklessly! This is the leadership that Jesus the only begotten of the Father showed during His earthly ministry. Not a domineering, know it all! Not one who boasted about His leadership but one who boasted about serving. So to are we His friends if “we do what He says”. Lets love our wives by giving up ourselves. To be at their service, lets even “outdo each other in doing good”.
Great post my brother. On time again. I like Lifetime, only thing is I won’t get no arguement about wanting to mop or scrub, Shannon will quickly hand that over to me (lol). You touched on something here about the man being the initiator like Jesus Christ does. Unfortunately, in the beginning of my marriage, I did not understand that. I am still trying to find where the scripture says we are to wait around to be served. Haven’t found it yet because there is no such thing. God bless bro
Karsten Miller
Thanks KM. I appreciate your kind words and encouragement. This is what the Lord has been showing me in my studies and convicting me. This is where I want Jesus to show Himself strong that I may live as He lived and die as he died and its hard because I would rather be served and catered to and am upset when things doesn’t go my way.
Lionel,
Well, the last time I picked up a broom, mop or dusted was just the other day. A matter of fact and maybe some controversy I am a stay at home dad. I get to study the Bible and get the house cleaned up all the time. I have changed kids diapers and now I feed them breakfast in the mornings before they go to school and I cook the suppers.
My wife is a teacher at the local high school and she loves it.
We are in Gods will. Another thing I have thought about as being a servant is using my kids as an example. We as parents are not only their stewards, but also servants. We usually have to stop what we are doing to tend to their needs. Especially as in your case they can’t change their own diapers or feed themselves. It is unselfish serving when you have kids. Then they are learning as we are doing. Just like a disciple should be learning and doing for the Lord.
Steven
Great post. I needed to be reminded of that.
Charlie
http://www.gracegate.org
Lionel,
Keep it up! Keep it up! Supercalifragilisticexpialidosious !!
awesome post. Thanks 🙂
I don’t mind sweeping, but I find it difficult to mop. After my wife makes dinner I’m glad, every night, to do the dishes. 😉
Randi,
Thanks again! A smiley face means at least someone likes it!
Rev,
Come on brother! Don’t half do it brother! If you sweep you got to fully commit to mopping! LOL!
SO,
You stay at home? What do you think of this by Driscoll?
http://theresurgence.com/should_husbands_be_stay_at_home_dads
Thanks Brother Aussie! If you give it a thumbs up, I at least satisfied my elder brother!
Lionel,
I checked out what Mark Driscoll said. I prefaced my comment with there may be some controversy. I have and am providing for my family. They are not lacking. Because of what I have been blessed with we are almost debt free. We just owe on a mini van and our house. I have no doubt that I am in the Lords will for right now. I say now because I have been looking into jobs. My wife stayed home the first 4 years of our childrens lives.
I was working fulltime and one day I heard the Lord say it is time for you to stay home and for your wife to go to teach. That day I went home told my wife what I felt was from God. Get this she was out of teaching for four years. She teaches High School art. There are not many openings for art teachers. Long story short. She had called one of the local schools the next day to see if there were any openings. The lady on the other end said, “Well funny thing our art teacher/coach just walked in and resigned a few minutes before you called. My wife got the job. Now that we are in Conway I again was prepared to go back to work and again the Lord provided an opening for my wife at the local high school. She teaches art, but more importantly she reaches out to the kids for Christ and they respect her for that. So God is using her in the school. I will not argue with scripture and I will not argue with what I heard God say to do. I have no doubt that I am doing God’s will right now.
My family is not and has not lacked in anyway. They are being provided for physically, and most importantly spiritually. Their teachers and others tell us we have the most well behaved kids in the school and outside. They are respectful and loving. I have had opportunities to go on missions within and out of our state. I go out and work in the mission field in our city also. So this has freed me up to preach the gospel along with loving my family. Not using this as an excuse, but until the Lord puts it back on my heart I will continue in what I am doing. The time I have during the day allows me to go where I minister on Sundays, do more ministery during the week. I don’t get paid for doing the Lord’s work, but am doing it freely.
So I would say amen to Mark Driscoll because of what the scripture says. Again there is more than one way to provide for your family. The bible doesn’t tell the wife what her duties are at home concerning cooking, cleaning etc. A matter of fact I am currently finishing up with 1Timothy and just getting started with 2 Timothy. As the Lord leads I will follow HIM.
Thanks for allowing me to speak, Steven Owen
http://www.rockonthis.blogspot.com
P.S.
I am about to go Crappie fishing so that we can have something to eat later.
Steven
Bro. SOwen,
Where do you live? I love Crappie fishing! I have fishing gear in my garage that hasn’t seen the light of day this whole year. (for reasons that will for now be undisclosed, lol)
Man oh man oh man…………
I’ll take a moment to comment on what I think about Driscoll’s “scriptural” take on stay-at-home-Dad’s…. (If I can stop fuming long enough to type something!)
Bunk!!! Total bunk! I’d use stronger language if I wasn’t writing in a forum where I already know I’d be held accountable for that…
First of all, he takes the verses in Timothy totally out of context, because those verses are talking about not letting the church bear the burden of taking care of widows or other needy people, if that person has family members who can take care of them. I mean, if my mother-in-law was unable to work and take care of herself, and my wife and I were unwilling to take her in, but instead let other brothers and sisters in Christ take responsibility for her, wouldn’t something be wrong with that? Of course there would. If you’re unwilling to look after the needs of your own relatives, then how can you pretend like you care about the needy at all?
Secondly, in that video you see Mark and his wife totally perpetuating these ideas that men are basically retarded when it comes to raising children (“oh, it’d be so scary if I were home with the kids”…), and that women are only being moms if they are home with the children all day. Again, total stereotypes that are completely wack. So, if a dad goes to work all day, does that make him cease to be the father? Is there an hourly minimum requirement for qualifying as a mother? Just because a mom goes to work doesn’t mean she isn’t fulfilling the relational role of mother in her kid’s lives, and just because a dad stays home doesn’t make him less of a father….
And thirdly, and this is what just drives me up the wall, MARK DRISCOLL DOESN’T EVEN WORK TO PROVIDE FOR HIS OWN FAMILY!!!!!!!!!! Dude, for him to come out and say that if a man doesn’t work (in a job that pays…. because staying home with kids IS work!) than he’s worse than an unbeliever, is psychotically hypocritical, since he, and his whole family of five kids, LIVE OFF THE DONATIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!
SO,
I disagree with the “providing” part. I think it has more to do with widows. Though if a man is a lazy dirtbag who refuses to work I would question him spiritually. I was under that conviction until I studied the scriptures for myself. So I disagree with Mr. Driscoll on some points. Under the New Covenant you are free to function as you please. If she can make more and you don’t want your kids in day care then that is your choice. If you both want to work you are free. If you want to homeschool you are free, if you want public school you are free. To put it another way. We put unbiblical obstacles and yokes on people and wonder why they struggle with God.
Daniel,
Can you share with us your position on Mr. Driscoll please? LOL!!!! I agree brother, it isn’t proper hermeneutics, the scripture is dealing with widows and men who passed the financial obligation they have to others. I think it is a sign of greed and a lack of love, Paul always has the Gospel in mind when He writes. This is an evangelical fundmental misinterpretation.
Thanks for taking my comments with a healthy dose of salt and humor…. My sentiments towards Mr. Driscoll go back much further than watching that video. My wife and I actually went to Mars Hill when it was first starting out, meeting in a little theater near the University of Washington. Things have changed a great deal since then, but I already talked way to much about the dude, and your most recent post has given me some stuff to ponder. Thx…
Lionel, thanks brother for your comment on my comment. After writing that and questioning Mark Driscoll I thought of what he would think about pastors being paid. And since Daniel already took care to place Mark in his place. (LOL) I won’t bother going there. Thanks….
Bro. Lawrence, I live in Conway Ar. and I hadn’t fished in along time until last year when I felt the urge to get my 8 year old boy out in the outdoors. The gentleman who we fellowship with has a creek running behind his house that is full of Crappie. Right now! He told us back in August to be ready. I am hooked. I caught 9 the other night with my son who happened to be more interested in catching frogs. I am planning on going out again tonight, since I fried all of the fish I had left last night. My mouth is still watering for more. Come on up and I will take you out.
Steven
Lionel,
Quick comment on the disagreeing with the providing part. I do all the laundry, cooking, grocery shopping, car fixing, kids to the doctor, mowing of the lawn, maintenance of the house and other things that would fit that category of providing. It may not be a financial provision, but it is still providing since I don’t have to take off from work to do those things. My old jobs plus some other financial blessings allowed us to have our old house in Texas fully paid for before I was married. So what we made from the sale of it helped provide a lot of money down on our current home. So there is another area that had been provided by the Lord.
Lionel,
Once I apologize as I reread your comment on the providing part and see where you are going. I have a short comprehension and attention defiencency going on. So please disregard my previous comment if you would. Maybe I should be going fishing now since that is where my mind is. LOL
Steven
Sowen, I’m so glad you shared about those different ways of providing for our families, because God has taught me a great deal about that since being home with my kids. I’ve been able to devote time to things like learning how to grow an organic garden (which surprising puts food on the table…), fixing things around the house (so we don’t have to pay some guy to come and fix them), and also harvesting a decent amount of firewood from the 3 acres of land that our house is on. Since being home, I’ve felt more free to provide for my family with my own two hands than I ever did before when I was working for a paycheck, in ways that actually interest me to boot. Overall, God is so cool, I wrestled with these questions for several years, often feeling really insecure and like I wasn’t “doing my duty” as the father and husband. It has been so freeing to now be in the place where ignorant statements, like the ones made by Driscoll, can no longer make me feel like I’m sinning, when I’m actually being obediant to what God is calling me to do! Thanks for sharing from your life, it has encouraged me.
Daniel,
So I take it your a stay at home dad, or rather a domestic engineer? I have done this going on 7 years now. I am more free also than I was when I worked for others. I even at one time had my own business and it still wasn’t as hard as dealing with 4 kids. I get to go to eat with the kids at their school which makes their day. God has His reasons for everything we do and as long as we are following His will as the scripture says: Lean not on your own understanding and in all your ways acknowledge Him. Then He will direct your paths.” I live by that and God has been faithful.
Steven
Domestic engineer, I like that! Maybe I should make some business cards, that would be funny…. The next time somebody at a barbeque or something asks me what I do, I’ll just whip it out, and say with a deep, serious voice, “Here, my card…”
Gentlemen-
Great points all the way around.
Daniel-
What happened to Driscoll? Is he no longer the poster boy for the Postmodern church? Grin. I think like you mentioned, he figured out the traditional church free money scam is a cushier gig!
Daniel,
One more benefit of staying at home and having a wife who is a teacher. THREE MONTH vacations during the summer. My kids and my wife are on the same schedule so they get long breaks for holidays ie. Thanksgiving, and Christmas. Plus the summer breaks which helps us to both be with the kids.
Hutch, man hows it going? It seems the family is gradually getting back together after Lionel thought he would not be posting anymore. LOL…
Steven
Hutch – I don’t know if he has posterboy status anymore, but his church has become what I’d describe as basically a mega-church for “generation x’ers”. He’s basically using the same ‘seeker-sensitive’ methods invented by baby-boomers to draw a younger crowd, where tattoos and piercings are cool and the walls are painted black. They have like five services now, and he’s definitely not hurting $-wise. A few years ago, while my wife was working in Escrow, she was surprised to see the file for his house’s refinance land on her desk. Let’s just say his house isn’t cheap. I’ve also heard that recently he’s started teached some pretty wacky stuff regarding leadership, apparently he’s come up with this idea that there are the offices of prophets, priests, and kings within the church. Some of the elders who objected were dismissed and replaced with ones who would toe the line. Crazy stuff. Anyways, I hope nobody here is offended by my comments about Mark…
I too am happy that Lionel didn’t stay away from blogging, he’s got too much good stuff to contribute!
Daniel-
Yeah, it’s a shame. I was being tongue in cheek and I really should stop.
I’m dating myself with this but he kind of reminds me of the guys we called “posers” in the hairspray bands as we headbanged to Slayer, Danzig and Pantera-all pre-conversion of course!
Loved the broker analogy.
Lionel-
Your last handful of posts are what the stuff of spiritual maturity is all about. When we can keep these issues and attitudes at the forefront of our mind and in our actions we can begin to be used by God to actually minister to others.
Keep on holding up the mirror in front of my face, even when it hurts!
Remember the Time-what was that dudes name who held the mirror for Morris Day? You are definately not that dude!
That guy just popped into my head from past memories of a bunch of white upper middle class high school kids back in the day doing the bird! What time is it? Oh e oh e oh….ROFLOL!
Steven-
I’m doing well, glad to join the reunion. I read your recent post on your blog. Keep up the good work it will bear fruit and probably already has in ways you cannot imagine.
Hutch,
You are no longer allowed to post here friend! LOL!!!! I can’t stop laughing.
Daniel,
Thanks a bunch for the kind words, you and Hutch both. I am enjoying this dialogue.
wonderful post lionel. thanks for visiting my blog and leaving a comment. you know i’m definitely going to direct the men to this post. LOL
Lionel-
I just googled it his name was Jellybean and the track list/titles just refreshed my memory about what the lyrics on that album were all about!
What!
Ooops.