Here is a video so you can understand where I am going.
Here is the scripture I want to discuss:
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving
I want to come to this two-fold. I want to preface that I am not attempting to be legalistic, nor judgmental, but I do want to express my concern with Mr. Tripp’s perspective.
1. Culture drives the definition
As Paul is writing this, he doesn’t give the Ephesians a list of “cuss words” so to say. He is very broad in his approach and I believe this to be a strategic move. Why? Well because he would have probably needed to write an encyclopedia and have someone keep it up to date daily. What do I mean? Well simply put culture is always coming up with words that are filthy, foolish and crude. Check the latest movie and there are always no words or euphemisms that are all of the above. Just watch the latest music video or read the latest book or go to your local barbershop or visit a social website.
So instead of trying to draft and exhaustive list Paul simply makes categories which are: Filthy, Foolish or Coarse. As an Ephesian reading this letter they would have immediately understood and I believe we do also. Now there are some words that have been transcendent and we label them cuss words. Across the board they are cuss words, some words sort of fall in between. Such as: piss, bastard, suck, screwed up, and the like. But there are some words that we all know as bad, plain and simple, and we are only lying to ourselves, because if our kids were to say it during an Easter Sunday speech or during show and tell we would be embarrassed beyond belief.
So again Paul makes broad categories which they would have automatically started to compartmentalize, they probably wouldn’t have agreed with all of them but they sure would have been able to agree on the majority of them with little wavering. Such is for us today. We know which words are unacceptable and Mr. Tripp’s answer to the word he uses quite frequently is one we all agree on. We wouldn’t want are kids saying it, we wouldn’t say it in an interview, you wouldn’t want a pastor using it if he dropped his sermon on Sunday morning, and you wouldn’t want the cartoons your kids watch saying it either. No excuse there.
2 Even more importantly our Brothers and Sisters.
Paul writes this:
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
Because of our liberty driven, self-serving, autonomous Christianity, here in the West this is one of the MOST overlooked doctrines in the Christian church. It is funny that in His incarnation Jesus sets aside His rights as God and becomes subject to His own laws and the Roman Government to serve us, and we flaunt our liberty as believers recklessly. As if Philippians 2 “don’t look out for your own interest only” isn’t to be applied to every area of our Christian lives. We have brothers and sisters who are offended by certain language, and not only do we continue to use it. We have men like Driscoll who boast and when challenged by others (unless they are Piper, Grudem or some other prized theologian) instead of repenting he calls them cowards. Wow!
Just say this is an issue of liberty. What does Paul say about eating meat in another section “that I will never eat meat at the offence of my brother”. This isn’t limited to meat. It involves many other aspects of the Christian walk and language is one. Again as a nation called the United States, we have language that we deem unacceptable. Even the non-believers agree on most of what we deem filthy language, we then in turn say “well if we need to get a point across then…..”. Many of the older generation would see this video and automatically tune Mr. Tripp out, they would listen to (and have listened to) Driscoll and say no way! Even after the talk with Grudem, it seem weird that Piper would post this video which happens to be more vulgar in its usage than what Grudem challenged him on.
Finally a challenge to Mr. Tripp would be this. When we hear the word s_it. What comes to mind? Is it not filthy? I think of a toliet stool and someone sitting on it. Is that appropriate imagery to cast into someone’s mind? I don’t know, but that word seems like one we have agreed upon at least the last 30 years. When I used it one day at my house when I thought my Grandmother was gone to communicate my dissatisfaction with my sister, my grandmother made me a bit more acquantied with one of my belts.
In closing. Paul gives us an imperative, instead of trying to find ways to scoot around it or walk a tight rope on what Paul really meant, lets try to ALWAYS have our language seasoned with salt, and void of things that has been labeled filthy. instead of trying to theologically argue away this charge, lets just try to walk in holiness in every area of our lives. We don’t need to impress other people by using foul language. We can impress them by serving and loving them as Jesus did. A sidenote, no one I know has come to Jesus because of foul language or an argument that it was acceptable, and no one in the bible said “man Jesus that’s a nice way to use that cuss word, can I be one of your disciples”. Jesus loved and laid down His life, we are given one way to introduce people to Jesus and that is the Gospel. No need to get creative.
Bro. Lionel,
I just watched Mark Driscoll’s video. He appeared to have many points about harsh language in the bible directed at religious people. It can be argued that those he mentioned (Isaiah, Elijah, Ezekiel, Our Lord, Paul) all had the authority to speak as they did and we don’t have the same authority. But it is interesting.
I agree with you that we can make our points, and even the bible’s points, without being vulgar. I also agree that we must be aware of the impact our language has, not only on fellow believers (the weak) but also on unbelievers.
But I also think that we shouldn’t be “religiously” minded when speaking, in the sense that we develop a false piety in order to impress. For instance, when people say to me “Hey BLD, how are you?” and I say, “Oh blessed and highly favored of the Lord. You know this is the day that the Lord has made….”, etc. etc. (By the way, I’m adding to what you DID say, not contradicting what you DIDN’T say)
It’s funny that “curse words” are something that I don’t struggle with. It’s the borderline words that seem to get me. I bet this conference was really interesting.
This causes us to really rest in Christ Jesus. I say that because I ain’t gonna lie, when I get beat at something like B-ball, trip and fall, or get burned accidentally, the first word on my tongue is not a “thank you Jesus”. I feel the urge to let a four letter word come. I try sometimes to play it off with a shoot, darn, or fudge cookies, but I know what I really want to say. I understand now James 1:19. I must rest in Christ Jesus in keeping me from saying the words I want to say. Trusting in Christ alone, to season our words with grace, is the way we can make it.
What about this one? A former pastor of mine, spoke at a funeral of a young man killed in Baltimore City,Md. Many of the neighborhood people knew the kid and were surprised at his death. To try and relate, the pastor said “I know ya’ll are thinking, this is some **** up ****! But God…..” Now he says God led him to say that to relate to the people. So as the story goes on, one of the people who attended that funeral was interested in knowing more about the pastor. He said that the pastor “kept it real and made ever body feel better.” My former pastor took that to mean he was doing what God wanted him to do (his form of confirmation). I mention this point out that sometimes people think saying these types of words helps them relate to the people. But my question is what about edification or drawing people to the Lord Jesus Christ?
Unfortunately, the job will not allow me to look at the video, so I’ll have to check it out when I get home. Yes, and you can say it Lionel : Go Redskins……lol.
Karsten Miller
Lionel,
Good on you mate! That’s Australian for “Great blog brother!”
i’m so tired of professing believers behaving in such a carnal manner under the guise of “keeping it real”. real, what?
There’s nothing magical about language. That is, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a word because of the letters that compose it. I believe the passages in scripture dealing with controlling your tongue or speech have everything to do with the content of your speech and have nothing to do with the specific words you choose to use.
When I was growing up it was okay to watch movies with a little bit of cussing in them, but it was always wrong to listen to music with any cussing. This double standard allowed me to realize that it is society and society’s stupid traditions that determine which words are “bad.” The question is, do you want to be the follower of the traditions of man, or do you want to be a follower of the word of God?
The word of God says there is only one word that should not be used, and that is the name of God when it is used in vain. So when we condemn other people for using the “S” word or dropping the “F-Bomb” then we are raising those words up to the same level as the holy name of God. There’s nothing sacred about any of those words, so maybe we shold stop acting like there is.
When someone is acting like a B*t*h, how is calling them a B*t*h any different than Jesus calling some of his peers snakes or a brood of vipers (Matthew 23:33), when that’s exactly how they were acting? There’s no difference. Both are just as insulting and both are sometimes called for. Sorry, but it’s true.
I’ve never used a cuss word to make people think I am cool. But when I didn’t use to cuss, no one took me seriously because they thought that I was judging them if they did cuss. They thought I was being all “holier than thou” by not cussing. Since I started throwing in a cuss word here and a cuss word there I’ve realized people listen and talk to me more now because they’ve removed the barriers that people normally put up to avoid the person they think is judging them. And by people listening and talking to me more, I’ve been able to make progress in reaching them for Christ.
Stephen,
1. Next time I go evanglizing in the hood I am going to bring some blunts and henesy with me so people can be more open to Jesus.
2. Next time I go to the beach I am going to ask my sisters in Christ who have nice bodies to put on some thong bikinis so when we go out the brothers will be more receptive to Jesus.
3. Next time I go down to Harry Hines (a prositute strip) I am going to pay some of the prostitutes to have sex with me then when we are finish I am going to share the gospel with them.
So those things will help me and assist me in my witness to Christ. What do you think?
Stephen you also said:
Read the verses I provided again and exposit them for me and let me know what you come up with.
Aussie J,
Thanks Sir. We are finding more reasons to compromise than to walk in practical holiness. Its funny that the Anabatist would have something to say about this.
Mrs. Mav,
What if your kids went out sharing Jesus and using cuss words to communicate the Gospel better?
Stephen,
There is so much wrong with what you said but I will only focus on a particular part.
The whole idea of God needing me to be vulgar with my language in order to “attract” people is an affront to the gospel of Jesus Christ. For it is the power of God unto salvation, not some well placed “cuss” words. Praticing holiness is always going to bring out those who would demean us but that is exactly what Christ told us to expect. He never instructed us to conform in order to be accepted. Paul may have become “all things to all men” but he never did anything vulgar to fit in. If anything he was unnecessarily restrictive of his own behavior/liberty, if it meant an open door to present the gospel. Not the other way around.
You need to rethink your position on this one.
lionel, i don’t understand why you posed that question to me. i don’t use profanity nor would i accept it coming from any of my children’s mouths including my 23 year old.
they BET NOT use expletives to communicate God’s Word. you cannot mix the profane with what’s holy and expect anything good. that was my point in asking why some people pretend they are “keeping it real” by using street language to “make” the gospel more easily received.
Hey Mav,
It was to prove a point. That you and I both understand that bad language is bad language so it is about language, no matter what the motive is to communicate. I was agreeing with you, I just wanted to show Stephen how off based his comment was.
It seems that especially provocative language in the scripture was basically reserved for critiquing the religious hypocrite.
Since I don’t always speak right, I can affirm that too much of my language does not meet the biblical standard. However, let me offer two thoughts about preaching.
First, in an American setting with a lot of nominal “Christianity,” some seek to provoke the religiously shallow.
Secondly, many think Christianity in America is “soft” and feminine. I know guys who talk “rough” cause they think they are proving that Christianity is not for punks.
I defend neither, just putting it out there. Your post was encouraging and chastising. Thank you.
SB,
I am with you brother. It is funny that Jesus allowed John to rest His head on his chest. It is funny that this Jesus allowed a woman to wash his feet with her tears, and washed feet with His own hands. I don’t Jesus was a sweet uy with a Joel Olsteen smile, but I also am rubbed abrasively when I hear that he would have rode a motorcycly and smoke cigars and dranked a six pack. Women adored him and Men worshipped Him.
Secondly we don’t need to make the Gospel anymore offensive than it is. I also don’t need to impress people with language that they may deem acceptable. Christianity is counter cultural and opposed to this kindgdom, I shouldn’t attempt to build any bridges that the scriptures themself don’t build. In other words I don’t need to outsmart Jesus, or out cool Jesus, or out shine Jesus. Lets put Him on display and He says “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to myself”. Lets trust him for Church’s sake.
Sorry, but in this case I am resting on the word of God and you guys are resting on the traditions of men.
Okay Stephen,
Exposit the text.
Ephesians 5:4:
“Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving”
Both verse 3 and verse 5 are about sexual immorality. So, in context, when this verse talks about crude joking it is talking about toilet humor and any joke that is sexual in nature. Thus, the F-word may be bad in some uses of it, but to use it as a participle where it has no meaning in sexual dialog isn’t wrong. Christians should realize it is the content of their speech which makes it acceptable or unacceptable in God’s eyes, not specific words they use.
Romans 14:13-19:
“Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer”
like we do when we judge a Christian who uses a “cuss” word
“but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.”
An example of a stumbling block would be like when we insist other Christians live by the traditions of men
“I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.”
These verses have been heavily debated for centuries. To give a full analysis would be ridiculous. The bottom line is, “Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.” And that includes the person who cusses. Are those the best verses you have to support your view?
How come euphemisms are so accepted by the church if they mean the exact same thing as the real cuss words? If I am at church talking about the “freaking awesome” game last night no one bats an eyelash, but if I say “F***ing awesome” then I’m screwed lol? That may seem like an extreme example but I am trying to make a point. I’ve heard people at church say, “dang it” or “darn you” but if what is in your heart when you say “darn you” is just as bad as what is in the heart of the person who says “damn you” then you are just as wrong. But again, it’s not wrong because of the exact word that slips out of your mouth. It’s wrong because of what resides in your heart when you say it.
If I am at the world’s greatest dog show convention then it is perfectly acceptable and even professional to refer to one of the dogs as a bitch. However, if I am talking about my “ex” then some will find it offensive. This just goes to show that it is not the word itself, since there is nothing sacred or magical about the word, it is how you mean it when you say it.
Originally the F-word meant to strike or hit something? Biblically speaking, how would it be wrong if I use it in that capacity?
Okay Stephen.
Okay? Okay as in you agree with me? Or okay it’s okay for you to ask me to exposit verses and answer your questions and it’s okay for you to not answer any of mine kind of okay?
Stephen,
The latter. LOL
okay?
Stephen, I appreciated your response and LW… I’m disappointed that after Stephen but forth such a thoughtful exposition you failed in response to what was obviously a “challenge” from you… you shrugged him off.
My wife asked me to read this… because she feels my language is inappropriate. I have been convicted at times of speaking out of context for the culture, but I have to say I lean more toward Stephen who at least will engage in thoughtful debate rather than simple dismissal.
Jeremy,
Stephen made up in his mind after showing the verses in context showing how commentators and everyone else under sun exposit these verses and others interacting with him he was still convinced. After much discussion his mind is made and so is yours. Look at the post and provide an expostion on them that conflicts with mine.